Episode 24: Making Sustainability Simple

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In 1915 Robert Frost told the world about his two roads: the two roads that were diverged in that yellow wood, and how the journeyman made the important decision to take that less-traveled option. Entrepreneurship is one of those less-traveled roads, and a great many people choose it. But often the most difficult part of that road lies at the very beginning, at that choice, a choice which is full of inherent risk.

Hey, Luke here for another week of SphereCast, and this week Xenia and I speak with Iris Skrami, co-founder at Renoon, the smartest tool for conscious fashion shoppers. Founded in Feb 2020, Renoon is the first global app that sources items from across the internet and assigns sustainability attributes to them. Ultimately, the platform empowers consumers to realize their sustainable lifestyles and values when shopping fashion. Since its founding just over a year ago, it has processed over 3 million products and has attracted the attention of some of top fashion industry veterans.

Iris is an incredibly successful entrepreneur. In addition to sitting at the helm of a rapidly growing startup, she recently breached the Forbes Italia Under 30 list of 2021. However, Iris would be the first to tell you that the road of entrepreneurship is one filled with challenges. But the hardest challenge? Just taking the first step. On the podcast, Iris shares her vision for Renoon, discusses the difficulties of entrepreneurship, and most notably mustering up the courage to start. So without further ado, here's our interview with Iris Skrami.

Hello everyone. This is Xenia with SphereCast, and today we're thrilled to host on our SphereCast show Iris Skrami. Hi, Iris.

Hi, thanks for having me.

I would like to start with an icebreaker. Could you share with our audience something interesting about yourself that most people perhaps don't know and cannot find on any social media including LinkedIn?

Well, it's actually a social media, so probably still people can't find it because I'm under another name, but during my university days, I fell in love with yoga, and so I started a YouTube channel with yoga, which actually hit more than 10 million views this year because also due to COVID, and a lot of people were doing yoga at home. And so yeah, that's a bit the funny story from my side, which also a little bit it's still linked with what I'm doing today, because it's also part of a conscious lifestyle that I had started. And yeah, definitely not something that a lot of people know.

That's amazing. Are you professionally trained to be a yogi? Did you go through training?

Yeah, exactly. So I had this passion of mine for a very long time, and actually I got passionate very fast, which after just 1 year of practicing, I immediately started to be also trained as a yoga teacher, and then I continued on. And I wanted to share this passion with other people, and so that's why I really started that. I mean, I had all my friends that had never heard or tried even yoga, and so I said, "Okay, if I can make some videos in 10 minutes like I'm their friends, maybe I can get other people to enjoy this practice."

Amazing. We're into yoga here as well. So I actually attended something with Sadhguru that was 2 and 1/2 years ago, and then we did this meditation exercise for 6 months in a row, morning and evening, so you have to do it twice to complete a chakra. And then, you know, we kind of lost track a little bit, and then we came back to it on 1st of Jan 2020. So since 1st of Jan 2020, every single day we have been doing it without fail, absolutely. So yeah, you've got a couple of fans here of yoga as well. So Xenia is not into yoga. I don't know, Xenia, you're into swimming.

No, I do yoga. Actually, the funny story is last fall I almost signed up for a class to become an instructor in my local gym, and I couldn't because I got pregnant. So now I am on a different path. Now I'm becoming a mother instead of a yogi, but perhaps afterwards I can pick that back up.

Yeah, it's a great also experience for yourself. I mean, I'm not teaching yoga anymore. I only actually did it online, but it's definitely a really great experience for you.

All right, then we're all yogis in this audience. All right, I found this quote on your LinkedIn that I want to bring it up here. You said, "For my cocktail dress for holiday '18-'19 season, I wanted to type quote-unquote 'sustainable black dress' somewhere, but I just couldn't find a place to do that and have the results I needed, and that's how Renoon was born." In your own words, what is Renoon and why did you start this company?

So Renoon is the smartest tools for us, indeed. It's what we've built to connect users and empower them to shop sustainably from multiple websites at once.

So this is a very practical way to put it, but what Renoon is is actually a movement of people that are really joining together to really make a change and shop according to their values, to their sustainability values. I really started Renoon because of a problem. So about 2 years ago, and I had already started in a successful career in fashion, but I realized in my personal life that I had made all of these changes, you know, from food or the ways I was consuming other things. And one day, I needed a dress and I basically spent a month and a half indeed trying to find it. And this problem really led me to see and start to question why isn't there something out there that can really facilitate this way for us as consumers to really put the values that we really believe in into action, and really continue and really bring those values alive with the things that we buy and own, or not own?

So really indeed Renoon started because of this. And as with many other startups, it's so important to start with a problem — a burning problem. So one of the first things I did was check that other people had this problem as well. And again, the problem is linked to the fact that it's very time-consuming. It takes really literally so much time to research online. So you would Google, you would start finding articles saying, "These are 10 brands," and then you would find the brands and you have to find if they have the products that actually you like or that they fit you. And then so it's a very complex process. And in the end also, you don't have the peace of mind or that way to actually check whether what is being said to you is true, but at the same time also fully understand it, because every brand then communicates in a different way, every retailer communicates in a different way. So what with Renoon we're doing, we're really aggregating that offering and bringing together that fragmented market that it's out there when it comes to sustainability and fashion.

I agree with that. It's a very fragmented market. Even in, you know, this is like, we're talking sustainability here, so every, different brands have different meanings of sustainabilities, I guess. And sometimes, some definitions differ. So how do you qualify these brands to be of the level where you would like to include them or aggregate or, you know, or direct your your audience to these sellers or resellers? How do you, is there a process in place considering, you know, you have sellers in different countries across the globe, etc.?

Yeah. So what we do is we have a sustainability framework that we actually publish every quarter, so much more frequently than any other company because it's what also how we stay in touch and we also keep communicating both with our consumers, but also our industry partners.

So our framework is really based on first of all technology. So we use technology to actually process all the data. And we actually are the first product and platform that really goes at the product level. So it's not only about the brand, but exactly that single item. What is that item doing? What qualities are there? And really give them indeed these attributes that make this item an item valuable. Because again, sustainability is a very broad and complex terms. And what we actually have noticed is that not only from qualitative, but also quantitative research and data, I mean from the start, and Renoon started just last year, in 2020, we've processed more than 3 million products from all our different platforms. And what we really saw is that with this data-driven way, we can really see what actually it's out there and really bring in the crème de la crème of the the products that are indeed out there.

So our framework has a basis of that. So it's the product really and have that filtering that it's linked to that. What we do at the brand level is that we have different criteria for which we assign values to our brands. We select first of all, and that is like our core, to select brands that have sustainability at heart, and they were born with sustainability at heart. Although what we do is, because also what we believe in is that there needs to be a transition throughout the whole market, is that we take also the collections of brands that are transforming or starting out, the collections that are really great, that are made in a way that really can match our sustainability framework. And then we transparently say what that brand is doing in terms of sustainability. So we do also have brands that are starting out, that have maybe one collection, and that they're really also there.

Having worked in fashion, I really saw how it is, how important it is is that if we want to make this transition to really get the entire industry on board, and especially those big brands, because those also have the power and the volumes and the actual possibility to even have also bigger impact. Although there's this piece missing between the brands, the retailers, and the consumer, because the consumer is completely left out alone. And so there's this miscommunication because in some way, sometimes what a brand can do might also come across as greenwashing. And at the same time, maybe something that it's really valuable, even from a brand that it's maybe not well known for its sustainability, it doesn't come across because of the online, because we have a 6-second time span as people now that are online.

So yeah, it's really about bringing back that value. And how do we do it? We have a system in place of five areas of impact through which a consumer can choose to really have an impact. And then what we do is that we onboard the user through different ways. And in total, we have more than 30 sustainability values that are inside these five areas of impact. They go from environmental protection, human well-being, animal ethics, innovation and technology, and modern consumption through which we put inside also made-to-order, slow fashion, so brands that are really taking it, instead of doing 50 collections a year, they do only two, and or even one. And so we then let the consumer say, tell us, "Okay, what is really important to them? What can they not shop without?" And then we match them with brands that actually fulfill that need.

Because again, sustainability is very complex. It's about values. It's about, as consumers, is a whole way of how we view the world as well because it's also tied to culture. Like again, I'm Italian, so in our Italian culture, we're so tied to leather, for example. So it's very hard to tell a consumer in Italy, "You should buy vegan products." And at the same time, I'm actually here, have been living in the Netherlands for almost the past 5 years, and here people are, "Okay, they want to try new things," and there's a big movement of people that are vegan. So again, there's different ways you can have impact. There still needs to be an objective and data-driven, technology-driven way to select the products, which we have as a basis, but then it's a personalization that goes on another level. So again, also we're building a community of actually people. So it's not only Renoon that tells you what you should buy or why not. It's a whole accountability system that we want to build for the for the whole industry with actually people everywhere.

I see. I actually did sign up for it, so I had to choose the values. And on the face of it, I chose most of them, I think, because I could relate myself with most things, yeah. So like I was telling you, I won't share this personally, so. Me and my wife decided to go vegan 1st of January 2020. So when we decided, "Okay, we will do this every day, this meditation practice," alongside we stopped eating all meat altogether. And I think there's been some breakages here and there in terms of having milky products, cheese or something, but we, you know, 90% of the times you're vegan, so we could say that. Baring the odd pizza, so that's that's how we normally operate, so.

And that's how sustainability should be. It's not about anymore, we're in a in a moment now in in in time where we we can't do with a small group of people doing it perfectly, but everyone needs to get involved, and we made sustainability need to feel personal and something that people, everyone can relate to and really start doing.

Yeah, yeah. Also putting it on the record, so yeah, so you know, we were reading this book by Marie Kondo about, you know, feeling good and all those things. So we decided to do our wardrobe and we got rid of a lot of the stuff, and we said thank you to all the clothes. And since then, we are very selective in what we buy nowadays. So some brands, we didn't think of sustainability, but in general, we thought we should buy less clothes. Only when we retire some clothes we replace them, not just buy for for the sake of buying.

I'm making this podcast about me, so I'm going to shut myself up completely here. Xenia, you can go next on the next one, so yeah. Okay, I'm just excited to hear all these things, so yeah. I'm definitely I will encourage my family to use your website, definitely. Something I can relate with, so okay, great.

So Iris, you are a successful entrepreneur, you're on the Italian Forbes list Under 30. What is your secret? Can you share your journey with us?

That's a very interesting question. I don't think there is a secret in in actually doing things. The most important thing to do in entrepreneurship — and the hardest thing — is to start. Because, sometimes, we're so tied to what we're doing. But then you have this burning thing that you can't stop thinking about and you really want to go and build, and that was, I think, the initial step. And then after that, it comes a part where you need to be consistent. And so it's about consistency. It's about basically being there every day, day in, day out, and really building in, setting yourself milestones that you reach.

Because again, Rome wasn't built in a day, and so it's really important to to also keep yourself, the people around you, the team really motivated because you can get that big thing that you want to build and put it down into small chunks that, and the milestones really, that you reach a step-by-step.

Interesting. I want to go a little bit technical on this. So you have mentioned a few times the data-driven approach that you have taken to the product, and I can see that as soon as a consumer lands on on your platform, you have to make some choices and obviously there is some data algorithm that's matching, you know, the buyer with the seller. So when you went about, you know, when you had this plan, the idea, you went on to build a product. So in terms of building this product, what was your approach knowing, did you know that you would have to work with data here or was it something you kind of, you know, learned along the way? How was the initial idea? How did the seed germinate?

So how how every, I think everything that when you build something, you it's important that you start from a problem. The second thing, it's really starting out and thinking a little bit high level what the solution might be. So again, our product wasn't the product that we have now from day one and from the first time that I experienced the problem. So it took a little bit of a while to form the initial way. But I and together with the first co-founder that I actually went to and spoke about my problem, he got really excited and said, "Yes, let's do this. Let's try to see what is it that we can build."

And I think what happened there is that we immediately said, "Okay, how do we want to solve it? Do we want to create another brand?" Because actually, that's where we started. Like, do we want to create another brand? Said, "No," because also there, like there's plenty enough brands. Like we looked all over the place and there are like so many brands. Second, do we want to build another shop? Again, no, because we we saw that also other online e-commerce places or marketplaces, on the mere sense of this concept, are already out there. But what we want to build, we want to build a tool. We want to build a product that can actually fulfill this. And how and what this product is, it's actually a digital product, so we need a technical person. And so yeah, we immediately went to a technical person. And I have to say that we had, we did have within the first 3 months of having the problem, we did have the idea and actually already a vision, an initial vision to what Renoon would be.

And the things that happened then next is either, you know, confirming some of the of these ideas and others, because you might have different hypotheses, right? And then you go test them and see what it would be, and then the solution starts taking place. And I think that it's something that it's, we're we're on a process still. So also it really depends also on what you're building, but for us, it's now like finding the right mix and finding the right components to really like to to your product, because it's such a, in a way, it's such a a real problem that people have, that we all have, that we want to, you know, consume better, do good, but at the same time, you know, don't spend a month and a half to just find something to research, and really actually have a very enjoyable experience. And so, but the problem, like that the solution, it's quite difficult. And so you need to sort of capture the complexity of it, but at the same time then make it simple for people. So that then simplifying it, it's also a very important task.

Thanks for sharing that. So where Renoon platform is today is is different to where it was at the beginning, I guess. You have made some strides. So so the initial prototype or let's say the the minimum viable product that you did, was it done cheap and dirty in in a very quick time to test the market, or did you test the market with something that was a nonfunctional prototype and then you saw that, okay, there's validation, so let's build the product properly? So was it cheap and dirty or or a balance of, you know, the sustainable approach, let's say?

This question is something that I think haunts a little bit us, our founders, hands us down every time. Because it's always like indeed a balance that you need to find, because as a startup, you need to get to the next step. And if you don't get to the next step because you're thinking, "I'm going to build the next billion company, you know, in a month," and so I'm thinking of investing long term with things that probably I won't even see or live to see, then also there it's not probably the right decision to do. So it's a little bit of a balance again, and I think finding the the sweet spot.

So for us, for this exact my exact experience, what we did is that the first thing we built, it was indeed totally a super quick and dirty prototype that we did. It was a page, it was a landing page for people to go and and see. And that was really to understand if the other people had the problem. Then we evolved from that and we created another more complex prototype where we started having some products in there, and people would click and actually be able to be redirected. We didn't have any partner, so actually everything was a little bit like fake in that sense. And then we evolved and evolved and, you know, built step-by-step.

It's important to do an MVP step-by-step. From the idea, you get the funding. You need to show that you can execute and build something with the resources that you have. At the beginning of your startup, you're never going to build something amazing. But you have to start with what you have and make it work to get to the next stage.

I think we briefly talked about the team members of Renoon. Could you tell us more about the founding team, and how did you come up with the name Renoon?

Yeah, so team is the number one thing when you're building something. And it's not something to to, because really with the with the initial people that to rebuild the company, you're going to share everything because also the startup becomes your life, and both on a on a work experience, but also as a fit with the founders. And to us, it was, it happened quite naturally in the sense that with the first founder Gabriele, we were actually working at PVH. It's the mother company of Tommy Hilfiger and Calvin Klein. We were working in in in data and technology there, and we sort of had already worked together. And so we were both passionate about this, so that's how we started.

And with our passion, we brought on board another person who, we I mean, we spent a bit of time, especially myself, going to events and trying to find a co-founder, a CTO, and then it ended up being in the same place where I live. It's in the same block of apartments. And this person is just naturally like, he felt thrilled by what we were trying to build because he's passionate about sustainability. And he was actually perfect because he had the skills that we were actually looking for, which is a back-end, and what we do is indeed data first. And so that's how we got the third.

And our fourth co-founder, again, was very natural in the sense that by putting it out there, telling to our friends, because also again, this is something maybe some founders when they have an idea, they keep it for themselves that until like, you know, there's a product or something to announce the world. But it's really important to talk to the people that you actually know and share that, because again, you might never know you're going to find another co-founder or you're going to find somebody that will help you. And so that that's what happened to us. We found the other co-founder, we were missing really like a sales and commercial-driven person, and that's how we found Piero, who joined indeed the team. And we cover literally all the different aspects and most important aspects of the business, which really also for us make us really strong because we know that in anyways as the core founding team, we have all that we need.

And again, we're a very functioning team also in terms of personalities. And in a way, it feels like it's luck, but in the end, it's not, because it's again, because it happened so natural is that it's sort of like the pieces of the puzzle like were fitting because it happened so naturally. And so to us, that that personal fit was something that happened. So for example, I'm a very determined and a strong personality in that sense. Then we have Nicolò, who's our developer, so he's very introvert and actually he he can take like, you know, down and sort of think of problems in another, in a completely different way than I do. And then we have Gabriele, who's like he's very analytical, but he's also very, very strategic, so he brings that a little bit very big picture view into the team. And again, Piero, who's a very he's like the most positive person in the world, and so brings in that that aspect of also being extrovert and very lively in the team, which I think it's it's super, super important that that really brings the the whole team to to to to to stick together and actually have also fun, because that's also really important when you're building a startup.

Understand that, yeah. We hear similar kind of theme from a lot of the entrepreneurs that we speak with, so completely, I don't think I can say I completely agree, but this sounds like, you know, the ideal kind of things that have to happen for for a startup to grow on to becoming a successful business.

Now, segueing into the next part, I'd love to understand, what's next for Renoon? Where is Renoon heading in the next 2 or 3 years? Or are you are you planning long into the future, or not sure how you approach it, now that I understand a bit more about you as a person?

Yeah, so we're planning the next 5 years, and we definitely are this year we're really focused on product and really our core users, building the the the whole platform further, like really putting strong basis to it. We just actually closed our first pre-seed round. We have important key veterans from the industry, so for example, the ex-CIO of Gucci, the ex-CTO of YOOX NET-A-PORTER, some people, ex-people from Spotify. And all these people actually investing their much more than their monetary resources in in what we're building. Again, because of the the also product and the mission that we have.

And so this was for us a very important initial step, like really bring on board not only money, but smart money. And yeah, we were we actually raised more than we wanted to in this first pre-seed round, so which was really a great success for us. Hard work, but really a great success for the team. Now, what's next to us, it's again, once we finalize this initial part of our plan for the platform, then we have internationalization. So we have a very digital and scalable product in that sense, because we don't handle stock. We handle data. So when the user finds what they're looking for, they're redirected to our partners. So we partner with multiple websites that can be like directly the brands, but it can be also multi-brand platforms. So we really scrap the whole web when it comes to this different partners, and also with second-hand and rental, actually. We have those different types of consumption models that enters the circular economy.

So literally, what we really see is that we can indeed move quickly to to go to other markets, especially markets that are really specific into first like starting with bigger markets that can really also help us build a very strong infrastructure, and then localizing for more. And again, I think now we're, so what we're doing is we're very, very focused on really our core product. But what we also want to do in the future is really put the data that we have, that we're really gathering throughout the whole industry, to help also the industry with data-driven in a data-driven approach. Because also again, the industry now currently is moving with what they have, and there isn't appropriate data also sometimes to take the correct decisions and really bridge the gap between the consumer and the brands.

Iris, I want to give a chance to our audience to learn about you as a person. It seems like you are very good at managing your time and getting work done. Could you describe to us your typical day?

Yeah. So with COVID, of course, there's the the variety really comes with the different meetings that you have. So normally I really start my day quite early, I have to say, around 7:00, 7:30-ish. I, every now and then, I start with a little bit of a workout as well. Then I get to my laptop, and I actually immediately start with emails. That's like the first thing a little bit I do. And then I get to like the most important thing that I have to do during the day so that you can get that over with, and then really keep the chill things a little bit for the evening.

I'm a kind of a person that actually really focuses throughout the whole day. And yeah, actually it's also something that it was really important to me when I started my career to really also select workplaces that would actually transfer to me not only knowledge, but also the the the the method to really have that work ethic. And I think it's so important to form yourself and to really build the discipline when you're really doing something, because again, it's it's planning, but also a lot of discipline. Schedule your days. Make sure you have things you want to get done every day. And measure that. And really get those done.

I think it's also important at the beginning when you're a startup to, I think a lot of people say to say no and to focus, which I still think it's important, but at the same time keep a little bit more open because you never know that extra meeting that it's going to bring you something that you didn't account for. So again, I'd say those are the the key elements for for my day. And definitely I think that the the best takeaway is to to find a little bit what works for you also as a person. Like to me, it's like completely different from my co-founders, for example. We have a completely different routine among each other, but that's also I think the the the beauty of it.

I love that. You mentioned it slightly, you know, the word of advice that you would, you know, wish you knew in the beginning of your career. If you could just maybe summarize it in a sentence or two for someone who's maybe starting out or fresh out of college who who's interested in starting their own business, what advice would you give them?

I would definitely say totally to schedule your days. So make sure that you have in different things that you want to get done every day and really like measure that. And again, it's it's also important to probably if you're really starting out, to maybe be in a place where you're surrounded by other people that can also be part of also the way you you're working. Again, I think it's it's still important to to measure yourself with with yourself, but also sometimes if especially when you're starting out and you're coming from a totally different environment, which is school, university, that's that's something completely different.

And you're especially also when you're in a startup, you confront it with basically the whole market. And so it doesn't matter sometimes the the hours that you put. It's like the outcome that you need to achieve, because the market, in that sense, is very hard. Like you it doesn't it doesn't care if you put 10 hours, 20 hours, 100 hours. What cares is that your the user care that you're doing the job for them, and yeah, you're providing a really good service.

I really like what you said there, compare yourself to yourself, because I think, you know, the yesterday you can be better and you're just comparing yourself and moving on, and learning and just becoming a better version of yourself every day. I love that. Thank you.

Okay, so Iris, we've come to the final part of our podcast. And you know, this is where questions can be slightly trickier, I can say, if I can say that. So I think you've had a short career so far, fairly successful, very successful, you know, if you look at it. So what what would you say are the most important attributes of a successful entrepreneur or a leader today?

That's also very indeed hard question because again, I don't think there's a specific set of of qualities, and I think if we would really box somebody into those different aspects, it would still, we would end up into the the problems that actually we have today, because we do have some problems today, which is also the inequality of where also the the the the funding goes to. I mean, also this year the the funding of female-founded startups also went down compared to last year.

So I would say that apart from like these different qualities, it's more like not just a quality in itself, but really as seeing when someone is completely passionate about about what they're doing. I think that's I think the the key thing. So it's not something that a person, I think everyone can have, so really having that passion for something. And I think that's it's the game-changer because also with us founders, it's really what gets you every day to to be so thrilled of what you're going to build, because it's what you can't stop thinking about, because it's literally like your passion.

Yeah. I heard somewhere, "No passion, no point," so yeah, indeed. If you are doing something, you better feel some, you know, something about it, otherwise chances are you're not going to succeed. So with that, I think we have come to the end of the questions that we had in mind. So as the ending notes, I think we, I want to thank you personally, Iris, for coming to to our, you know, guest series that we're doing on entrepreneurs like yourselves. Pleasure to have you. I think you were very honest on this on this episode, and we really enjoyed talking to you. Xenia, do you have any notes to share?

Iris, you're a passionate, successful, intelligent entrepreneur. We wish you the best of luck in your business and future ventures.

Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

A special thanks to our podcast guest this week, and once again to our sponsor, Sphere Partners, for bringing this episode to life.

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