Episode 36: Trust Your Intuition

Hey listeners, welcome to SphereCast. A podcast all about technology, technology advice, technology inspiration, and how real entrepreneurs have used technology to build their businesses from the ground up. If you're wondering how technology can support your business goals, rest assured, our guests have been there and done that.

Entrepreneurship is a hard road, but female entrepreneurship carries a whole other set of difficulties. In a world that has traditionally been dominated by men, the path of the female entrepreneur is often paved with overcoming self misconceptions, grappling sexists stereotypes, and having to prove yourself over and over again. And also, learning to trust your gut to believe that your instincts hold merit and are worthy of being followed.

This week, our guest's journey is a story of empowerment of a female entrepreneur who began to experience true success once she began believing in herself. It's Sania here with SphereCast and this week Luke and I interview Emma Kay, Founder and Chief Marketing Officer at WalkSafe.

The WalkSafe app visualizes real-time crime reports by plotting these incidents clearly onto a map, allowing users to build a detailed understanding of local area crime patterns and plan safer walking routes. The WalkSafe app also features loads of other pro-safety functionality, keeping users safe while out and about.

Emma was inspired to start this business after speaking with her brother about her fears and other women's fears of walking alone, and she was ultimately brave enough to take a step out as a female entrepreneur. But a key part of Emma's journey was finding a belief in herself by proving to herself that she had what it takes and that her gut instincts were right and true. Only then did she experience true success.

On the podcast, hear Emma's entire entrepreneurial journey and how she hopes her story inspires other women to find their voices and trust their intuition. So without further delay, here's our conversation with Emma.

Hi everyone, Sania's here today and we're thrilled to host Emma Kay from WalkSafe. Hi Emma, how are you?

Hi, thank you for having me. I'm very well, thank you. How are you?

Doing well, thanks. Let's begin with a nice breaker. Could you share with us something interesting about yourself that most people don't already know?

So I come from a very, how do you call it, spooky background in the fact that my uncle was a medium, and he did this full time for his living, and my mum's a tarot reader. So there's a lot of card reading, tea reading, and things like that in my family. And I suppose it's really helped me within my life and within my new job. I've got strong gut instinct. So I really work off of that in everything I do every day, and I think that comes from my family background.

Wow, that's amazing. I truly believe in intuition and that you have to, you know, kind of evolve it and feed it, because every person is born with it, so if you kind of let it hinder, then it's not going to help you, you know, in your life. So it's very interesting to learn that. Wow, thank you for sharing.

Let's switch to business and technology. So let's start with your most recent venture. In your own words, could you tell us what is WalkSafe and why did you start this company?

Sure. So actually before I do that, I don't know if you saw the news, we've been in The Times and we've just secured a £300,000 investment with a new VC group this week. So that's fantastic news for us.

Congratulations.

Thank you very much. So WalkSafe, it was set up because I went through a lot of different experiences in my life that I actually probably thought that was just normal. A lot of catcalling, sexual harassment, and this started from the age of like 12, 13 years old on the school. I just I didn't have the best journey to school. It was through a cut-through in a park, which was quite dodgy.

And it wasn't until I was older, I had the birth of my little girl, and I was discussing my past experiences with my loved ones and they were like, "What? This is this is crazy." They were obviously men, so they didn't understand or couldn't really understand where I was coming from or just that this was just just something that I said quite casually. I think they couldn't believe it.

So my brother and I went away and we decided we're going to do something about it. And that's how WalkSafe was born. I kind of discussed the features and the things that I'd like to see and I think could help you when out, and Richard was the one to work with a developer and he'd come up with that sort of tech side.

And we have been going for over a year now. We have over half a million downloads. We have got a podcast called TalkSafe. And yeah, we've got our new version of our app going live in the next month or two. And we've got a huge event coming up on International Women's Day. So we've got a lot going on at the moment.

Amazing. Yeah, I really love the the energy there. So so you have recently raised, you know, an investment round, and I guess there are plans to work on the the application further and develop it, you know, with more features. Talk us a little bit more about the the application. What does it do? What does it bring to a user? And, you know, kind of take us through that journey, maybe.

So ultimately, we really wanted to create something which was preventative and something that was the user would have to try and think about before they left the house. I think that's the one thing that's definitely missing at the moment. I think there are a lot of apps and applications, which by the way I love. I'm all for demand. I think, you know, there'll be something for everyone on the market.

Our app really we focus on being able to provide that knowledge and data and give that to the user to help them make safer choices. So we've got our WalkSafe map, which displays real police crime data. It refreshes every month and that enables our users to be able to plan their routes before they leave the house and really get a feel for where these crime hotspots are so they can avoid them.

We also have our community posting, which is where say you and I were going to go for a drink down the pub, and we've noticed there's no street lights, I can put that on my map and that will alert someone else who's perhaps going to do the same route within the next two hours that perhaps they should avoid that route.

We also have our HomeSafe feature. So again, if I'm about to go out for a night out, and I know I'm going to have so much fun, that I'm definitely going to forget to text my husband that I'm coming home, that's when you set your HomeSafe feature before you leave and should you not arrive home, your last known location goes to your loved one. And if you if you get home fine, a gentle notification's sent, it's all good.

And also there's TapSafe, which if you are out and about and you feel nervous, it alerts your loved one. Should the worst happen and that phone gets knocked out of your hand, again, a last known location gets sent to your loved one. But if all is fine, and you, you know, exit a road that you felt unsafe and you feel fine again, you can just stop that TapSafe feature and your loved one's notified. So we kind of feel that we've covered kind of all bases under the app.

I was just going to say, very practical and it kind of, you know, you've looked at the journey here, the whole, you know, use cases seem, you know, like all most things that I can think of right now, yeah, they they they do tick all the boxes. I've got a funny story here. So me and my wife, we were in Marseille two years ago, two or three years ago, and we had no idea how dangerous some of the areas are. So as we left the bus station, we went into a street, it was I think getting dark, and suddenly we realized, we saw a lot of, you know, like very dangerous-looking people, and one guy was totally beaten up, he was bleeding on his, you know, face, et cetera, and and then people started like, you know, basically pointing towards us, calling. So me and we were so scared that we started screaming and running off that street and it took us like 3 or 4 minutes to get out of there. But, you know, it was a scary, scary moment for us. But I can see that, you know, it can happen anywhere.

Yeah.

So yeah. So kudos, you know, to to have thought about all of this and put something in motion actually for people to make make make them, you know, give them a safer way home or way to work or anywhere they're heading. So yeah, absolutely awesome, I think, this whole idea.

Thank you. And I think that's half of it. I think like you touched on, the fact that if you were to maybe have known that that area was quite dangerous, if you'd had that knowledge before that, you could have deviated and chosen a safer route. And I think that's what we're trying to do here. It's trying to educate and help people to kind of forward plan, because we know the world, you know, sadly is can be a dangerous place and all we can try to do is, you know, forward plan, share our journeys, and try to keep ourselves safer.

Yeah, Luke, I've known you for years and you've never told me that story, so thank you for sharing as well.

No, I just I just thought about it, so it just came to mind. It's not it's not my proudest moment. I was screaming, so I try not to share it with everyone.

All right.

So Emma, tell us about the product journey so far. What were the some of the main challenges that you tackled? Could you tell us on some of the decisions and choices that you settled on and why?

Sure. So I feel like as with a startup, you're always learning. And I think that the power of hindsight is just always there. At the beginning, when we first I suppose really rose to fame online, we were floating the idea of kind of more community-based icons that could be available to the user. And I think we quite quickly learned that that wasn't quite appropriate in the fact that it could be misused.

The demographic that were misusing them at the time were minors, and I think they were having fun on it rather than using it for its actual purpose. So we very soon had a choice to make whether or not we sort of culled those icons and stuck to more of a police-focused sort of verified police data focus on the app.

And we were always a little bit hesitant at the beginning. I think that all these things are a learning curve. I think we soon realized it wasn't going to work that way and we didn't want to go down that route with the app. And as soon as we took them away, I feel that the community-based icons that we have settled on now work really well.

So I suppose that was a challenge, and I think that was one that I think it was probably good to go through. I think at the time, you might not ever feel that way. You might see it as a stress and you think, "Oh, again, power hindsight, why didn't we just, you know, reduce them at the beginning?" But again, I think it was worth going through. And the one thing we really pride ourselves on with WalkSafe is user feedback.

I think that's the only way to really improve and to really understand your user is we've done a lot of market research. I truly feel that our users' voices are really important. So we have spent a lot of time fine-tuning things, and we will continue to do that in order to keep evolving the app and making it as best as it can be.

Absolutely, sounds like you're really involved in the process of shaping your own product, and it's amazing to hear. So it sounds like I already got some of the valuable lessons in there, but maybe you can share with us the most valuable lesson that you learned during this journey?

Sure. It's along those lines. Do you know at the beginning, I was so new to it all, and I think I didn't, again goes back to gut feeling, I probably had clear opinions on things, and I knew I was right at the time, and I let my own negative sort of self-belief kind of get in my way. Where I was sat around a table with maybe a group of men, sorry, but it was at times I felt very dismissed at the beginning. And I then later on ended up being right on certain things, and I didn't step up enough at the beginning of that year.

And I have learned now that my intuition, my gut instinct, and my knowledge of the brand is right and that if I fundamentally believe in something and feel very strongly about something, I need to stand up for what I believe in and I need to speak about it. And I feel like I learned that the hard way at the beginning, but I've learned my lesson now and I'm a lot more vocal, which in a good way. So yeah, I think that that was probably my biggest challenge at the beginning.

Sadly, you know, this this is I think it's the kind of world we're in, so I almost hear this from my wife every now and then that she's had meetings and how she has to fight to get some respect for her opinion or some ideas that she's sharing, and normally, you know, she goes with her gut instincts as well. And you know, she I think she's in the last few months, we have kind of, you know, she's been taking a lot of coaching and she's found that confidence as a result. And it's a hard world for women to kind of, you know, make themselves heard and listened to and be able to do that. But I think times are changing, I believe, you know, there's support and I think I think the we men are thinking differently now. So definitely, there's there's need for change. I think it's it's 10, 15% there, so there's a long way to go.

I agree. And I love that she feels that she's actively taking steps as well. I think it's a process. I think we automatically, you look back and you think, "Oh, why didn't I just say that? Why didn't I step up?" Or I think you think you're just going to you always go upwards. It's like this linear line. And of course it isn't. You're up, you're down. You've had no sleep and you're really tired, you're probably a bit emotional, so you think maybe don't say anything today. And then you go out and think, "Damn it, why didn't I say something?" So it's just this constant this. But I feel that as long as you feel with maybe every meeting or anything you've ever done that, you know, you showed up for yourself and you were true to yourself in that and I think that's all we can be in life.

Yeah, yeah. The trajectory I think is important rather than the day-to-day.

Mine does a bit of this, not very straight.

Okay.

Yeah, it's funny, my husband, he grew up with a lot of women, so he has three sisters and a mom, so it's, you know, he's very pro-women. And he has like this this phrase that he coined, he's like, "It's 2022, you got it." So every time I feel nervous or, you know, like I complain or something, he's like, "It's 2022," and when he says it, I do feel difference, yeah, and that I can do anything, you know, because there is such a wave of women entrepreneurs like yourself, you know, doing their own thing and being independent and building their companies, building the future.

I love that.

So I just want to share that and, you know, they're word in support, it is 2022 and I think women can do anything now.

Well, I love that. So thanks for sharing. Also, he's I actually feel like I'm stealing a bit of his line here, because my title for our launch event is Women Leading the Change in 2022. And I do think he's right. We are, you know, we are on our way to, you know, really finding our voices. So watch out, world. I think your husband's spot-on. I love it. I think I might adopt that at home.

That's why I want to, you know, share it, because I think it's—

Love it!

Yeah, it's definitely empowering.

It is.

All right, so Emma, can you describe or outline your typical day for us? I heard some cycling there. What other hobbies do you have?

I feel like I'm so boring at the moment. I've got a seven-month-old and a 2 1/2-year-old, and if I'm not working, I'm with them. I do a lot of working during the day in the living room with the chaos around me. Typical day would probably be getting up with the kids, having breakfast. I do try and sneak in a quick run on my Peloton Tread while I'm working or something.

I love taking the kids out for a walk and a coffee, and then coming back. Monty then tends to have his early lunch, and then while he goes to sleep for his big nap, I can play with Ariana and get some more work done. And then after that, it tends to be a lot of meetings in the afternoon, maybe some podcasts like yourself.

And then after that, yeah, we do dinner, bath, and bed, and then sometimes some more work. So I feel like at the moment my typical day is jam-packed and I don't stop till I go to bed at night, so busy.

It's the best way to do it. You don't wait for, you know, things to end and then start something else. The waterfall model I think doesn't apply to life anymore. You just got to be agile enough to find those pockets of space and be able to do what you want to do with the family and then, you know, find time to work and then you kind of, you know, I think as a as a business owner or a leader, you just have to adapt and and be like that. It's not 9:00 to 5:00 at all. It's just you've got to be switched on, and you just have to find ways to switch off and on, you know, multiple times a day and and find your way, you know, through that day or week or month.

I agree. And the one thing I've I've found I've tried to change it up a bit. I think I was guilty of being too much in the room with them because I didn't want to miss a moment, but then I wasn't fully present in either. So this week, I'm trying a new approach, which is maybe, you know, spending a really set amount of time knocking out some emails, being fully present, and being really productive. And then after that, fully committing to them when I'm in the other room. And actually, I think that's going better, so watch this space. Hopefully hopefully I've feel like I can get a bit more balance.

Yeah, I I think you will find that. It's just a muscle memory thing. You just build it and and then it gets better each time you zone yourself, you know, in whatever you're doing 100% there. I have to remind myself like not look at my phone when I'm with my wife and, you know, all those things. Sania, I think we've we've discussed this a lot, you know, offline. Yeah.

Mhm, we do, yeah. And I think it's important. You know, we talk with a lot of entrepreneurs and they talk about their days, and what I maybe I'm sharing a little bit too much, but in my personal life, I don't find like, you know, blocking days or blocking, you know, "This is just for emails, this is it," like blocking my schedule or calendar like that. I think, you know, it's life, you have to be agile, like Luke says. You have to adapt. It's emails, and babies, and food, and everything, it's kind of it's life, you have to do everything at once. And you know, it's it's a muscle memory. We are able to do it. I think human beings are capable of greatness and so I think we can withhold so much stress and a lot of things. So I think—

I agree. And I think that the one perfect, I mean if there was a silver lining that's come out of COVID, is that we're all a lot more empathetic now. I think there's that understanding of everyone's got their own lives, everyone's multitasking, everyone's doing the best they can every day. I mean, usually my dogs are barking, some an Amazon guy's at the door, you know, someone's trying to have a coffee, one kid's crying. It's just I think it's almost unreasonable anymore to not hear sometimes that background noise, because that's just life. And the way I suppose we live our life now is half at home and maybe half in an office, or I suppose we're just always evolving.

Absolutely, it's yeah, we're constantly evolving. Which leads me to my next question. What is one thing you wish you had known in the beginning of your career?

Again, I think I could have afforded to have trusted myself more and my own opinions and thoughts. Being very honest, I felt at times that a lot of people I was having conversations with, they had So this was very new to me. I'd not been in tech before. This has been a real career shift. I used to be an eyelash artist at home before, and a stay-at-home mom, and everything really turned quite quickly. And I was then thrust into the media. I had to be media trained. I was thrust in front of a camera. I, you know, was talking about product. It was all a marketing. I'd never done these things before.

And rather than talk probably unkindly to myself and not in a way I suppose if I was talking to my friend, I wouldn't talk to them like it, but I think I'm a real perfectionist, and I expected too much off myself, and I yet wasn't kind to myself. And I look back now, and I kind of think I wish I'd, again, spoken up more, trusted myself more, because I had it all there and I just didn't tap into it enough. So again, probably the same as my answer before, but yeah. I hope that's answered it.

That was a lot. Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. I think as women, we do tend to kind of blame ourselves for when something doesn't go right. I don't know if you find it the same as I do, once one little thing, you know, like maybe in the morning we woke up a little bit half an hour earlier, that's it, my whole day is shifted, so I have to readapt. And I think it's important to not blame ourselves, but kind of adapt, because in the end of the day, you know, our kids, our husband, they don't care if the place is perfect, if laundry's clean, and the dinner's cooked. All they want is a smile on your face, smile on the kids, and that's it. They just want a happy family. So I think it's important to not blame ourselves, but just kind of take a moment to breathe, relax, and smile, because all those things—

Completely.

Yeah, they're So well said.

Yeah, we'll take care of them when there's time and we feel like there's time for it, right? As women rule the world.

And you can't pour from an empty cup, and that's the one thing I'm definitely trying to learn that, you know, I I want to take on everything. I want to say yes to everything. I'm scared of missing an opportunity. I'm very aware that I'm in that real growth stage of the company and that I'm scared of, oh, what if I didn't take that lead, and what if that could have been the next big thing?

And also, if you were to tell me 25 amazing things about myself and give me five things that weren't, I'd be hung up on those five. I'm always striving for that perfection. So I think that, like you said, having a little bit of a happy person all round is a more effective one. And I I think you're right. I think just taking that time to prioritize what's really important, you know, what can wait is ultimately, you know, what the best course of action is.

And one of the ways that helps me kind of unwind and relax and empty my mind, I'm a professional swimmer, so I just go to the gym, I go swim for maybe half an hour with my head underwater, just water in my ears. And my next question is how do you how do you relax maybe away from the kids, away from the business? How do you relax and just have your 5 minutes of peace?

Well, that's so impressive, first of all. I mean, I really cannot swim that well at all, so I'm really impressed. That's amazing. Well done you. If I'm being honest, exercise, like yourself, has always been that bit of me time, no matter I used to love the gym. Gosh, before kids, it was my I used to go every morning. I loved it. Then in COVID, I got a Peloton bike, then a Tread. And now with the stresses of WalkSafe, I used to love doing weights and things, but I my brain wouldn't I'd still be thinking.

And now being able to have a run on my Tread with my headphones in, I mean, please don't judge my taste of music, I love running to Britney Spears. Honestly, it just that constant beat, and I can switch off, and that is half an hour for me to really, and if I'm a bit cross or something's wound me up, or I've got to get that kind of, it sounds not a negative energy, but if you know you're a bit stressed and it helps me kind of like release it. Yeah, that's probably. Or that and a really lovely hot bath. I love a hot bath. So those two things.

Yes, I think it's very un-American, so I have an American husband and when I take a bath, I feel like he judges me. They just take shower, you know?

Yes. My husband's the same, he's like, you know, it really is a female thing, isn't it?

Yeah, definitely. They don't get it.

Luke, do you like baths? You don't get it?

No, no, I'm not I'm not. I'm totally against it. I just, you know, I don't like the dryness I have to deal with, you know, this dry skin after a bath, so no hot water is coming near me, yeah. I even even for shower, I use, you know, mildly warm water. So I'm not a hot water person. Yeah.

Oh, I want to come out looking like a lobster, then I'm happy. Really hot.

All the lotions, all the oils.

Yeah, exactly.

Right. Although I wanted to add, you know, to your point earlier, that you guys, you know, like blame yourselves for waking up late. I get blamed for that, you know, in my household. So

Oh, I need to actually answer that, Luke. I don't get to wake up late.

"I've I've ruined the Saturday, because we woke up late," you know? Yes, I get that.

My children are my alarm clock. There's no such thing as lay-ins.

Yeah, exactly. They're not a thing anymore, are they?

All right, let's go towards some of the final questions. So Emma, how do you how do you stay on top of the latest marketing trends? Because you've done tremendous job with marketing WalkSafe, and how do you keep up?

So at the moment, I I kind of feel again touching on doing a little bit too much. I do a lot of the social media, as well as, you know, the PR, as well as the marketing. I kind of feel at the moment, it's my job to stay abreast on absolutely everything on all platforms. Again, doesn't help with switching off.

So what I tend to do in the morning is I get up and I do a round-up of the media, of newspapers, of all the socials, and then again in the evening. I really feel that so much can happen in a day these days and I just try to I don't love Twitter that much, but I really feel it's really great for what's trending, what's going on, that really helps. And I feel that all the channels are so different, so I kind of feel like I've always got to do a bit of each.

But yes, I also am very lucky, I may add, that I've got some really lovely girlfriends and sometimes if I've had a really hectic day with the kids, they're really sweet and they ping me over, "Have you seen this?" And they're kind of always watching and keeping an eye out for anything they feel is on-brand or that I might want to talk about for content. So I'm very lucky in that department.

That is amazing. That's kind of what Luke and I do. We share things constantly that are popping up. Yeah, that's

It helps.

a great support system.

So you mentioned that you're having a new version of an app coming up. So what continues to be the biggest challenge from maybe marketing or tech perspective? And how do you wish technology would evolve to make business more efficient?

Good question. I feel that we need to make it more intuitive. I would love to see more live data, and I would love to be able to make it a lot more real-time. However, that does pose problems. That's relying on human data, human input, and that may not always be reliable as we've talked about before. So that's always going to be I think a challenge and one that we pride ourselves on using, you know, completely correct data.

So for instance, one thing I'd love to see is routes that have the most CCTV on. So I could say to a user, "Right, this is a safer route, because you will be walking down a route that has lots of CCTV down it." Problem with that is, is that people don't do audits of these things. So there could be one CCTV camera that's looking at a lamp post. There could be one that's not been checked in years, one, you know, the tape could have rolled out on. It just it poses so many things.

And I think in order to be able to say to someone that I'm providing that data, that needs to be 100% correct data. God forbid, if I then said, "Yes, this has got CCTV down this road," and then something happened to someone, I couldn't live with myself. I think we have to know that whatever I'm providing is correct and is right and will help the user, because we've got a duty of care towards our users, and I think that's always going to be an ongoing, I wouldn't say challenge, but something that we need to really focus on.

Also, the nature of what I'm talking about, it can trigger people. I'm someone who's experienced these things, so I understand. I think that we need to focus more on just ensuring that we're being sensitive to these things and that yeah, that we're evolving to meet our users' needs. So I I feel that it's quite complex and we've got some challenges that we need to work through. There's not a straight answer. I think it's going to take more market research, understanding our users' psyche more, and just making sure that the data and the technology that we're creating is 100% accurate.

Are you doing anything around community, you know, like I was thinking Google Waze, the way they, you know, like when I'm driving on a motorway, they're like, "Cops in 450 m," right? And you have to just say, "Yes, they were there. They were not there." And and I think, yeah, I was thinking like, you know, that only I think it comes up only after you've used the app so many times. It's it's not allowing you to do it straight away, so you have to be a, you know, a regular user and be be a community member, so verified or something, I don't know. So yeah, are you doing anything like that to I mean, obviously, it is a community app. I mean, the people are helping, you know, everyone, so

It's a great question. We've got we actually fundamentally believe in keeping the majority of the app free for the user, because we believe that personal safety is a basic human right, and one that everyone should feel. We are then looking to try and work through our B2B route to generate revenue there, so we don't have to charge our consumers. And we will have different versions in the future. So maybe if you would like the CCTV or additional things, like what you said with the Waze, they are things we're thinking about, the things we're in talks with people about.

Again, I keep coming back to making sure the data is always 100% accurate, and I feel that's my responsibility to do and to do properly. So I think sadly these ideas are they're so exciting and they're wonderful, but they always take that bit longer, because I don't want to put out something that I'm not happy with or not proud of.

Absolutely, I think that it's a balancing act and I think you have certain principles which you wouldn't compromise as as as a business owner. So yeah, again, you know, credit to you for that.

Well, we are at the end of our podcast, so this is probably one of the most trickiest questions that we've asked you today. What do you think are the top three attributes of a great leader in the current times?

Oh, that one's tricky. So I would say, I'm a huge believer in first of all someone who can actively listen. I think that it's important to know where your strengths and weaknesses lie and where you can learn from someone else. I'm the first to say in a meeting that that's not my area of expertise and I'm very aware that I may need some help in that area, or I'd love to be guided by someone. So I think as a leader knowing where and where your strengths are and being able to be guided by someone else. Yeah, I think that's probably I think the number one thing I suppose you need.

Number two, I suppose hard work ethic. I feel that in order to inspire or show people that, I don't know that you can, I I I live, eat, breathe it. I think I've not taken a wage since I've started. It's In fact, every penny we've got, it goes back into the business. I went back on my I had my baby, I worked up until the day I pushed him out. I went back at 2 months. I I felt so strongly and passionately that I could do it with Monty with me by my side. I think that in order to work for a company, I think it's they need to see that the leaders and people around them feel passionately and they're in it, they're fully in it. I think that's hopefully will inspire the people around them to want to be with you and want to join your company.

And third of all, I always think a little bit of empathy in anything in life. I think that a bit of warmness and kindness. I think we are living in hard times now. I think my team have gone through a few personal things at the moment and I want them to know we genuinely care. Like I don't want to create a company where We always our motto at WalkSafe is family first. We think that if anything happens at home, that's your priority, we'll support you through it. And you know, with COVID, health is wealth, ultimately. So having someone who's empathetic to your home life and your family life I think's really important.

That's a great answer. I completely agree. I think leading by example is amazing and showing some kindness to humans is just, you know, one of our basic rights as human beings and there's nothing wrong against it, right? So I don't know, Luke, do you have any final thoughts? What do you have any add, add-ons?

No, I I genuinely think, you know, we we we all need to be simple, and basic things that we need to be doing as humans are the most important ones. So yeah, I think, you know, you can all go fancy and like say, "Hey, you know, I need to be doing this, be doing that," but I think it comes down to basic values like treating people respectfully and, you know, being that lovely person and caring, I think, for your employees.

It just, you know, makes them want to work for you more harder. They they they feel the, you know, that they're being rewarded. So I think, absolutely, very important. And and again, you know, if if you care for them, they give you that care back. So you're developing that culture in the organization. So I think, you know, like we we go for fancy words, we are a bit like, you know, the social media goes for that, "Oh, something you have to Sound so fancy and, you know, I need to I need to have tears in my eyes after listening to that kind of thing and all that, you know. But I think it's it's simple things. If you do the simple things right, everything works out well in the end.

I think like, you know, Emma, you and Sania both stressed earlier on this point that the more you tend to not be yourself, the further you go away from success or not not even success, like to to make something work or click. So you just have to stick with the the make sure the energy is right and you are, you know, feeling good about something, and I think things work out in the end. So it doesn't it's not rocket science. It's just like, you know, you feel it, and if you feel good about something, chances are 95% of the times it's going to give you something back, so everything will be fine.

I agree. Well said.

Spark. Yeah, just spark. You got to keep it alive, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Emma, I want to thank you so much for your time. I hope you enjoyed our conversation as much as we did. We wish you the best of luck, and Luke and I are rooting for you and your product and WalkSafe, and we'll keep following your success, and let's stay in touch.

Thank you so much. I've thoroughly enjoyed myself and I really love that you've asked me on here today. So thank you very much, and yeah, I can't wait to keep watching our companies grow and yeah, definitely keep in touch.

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